Publicado: 01 Ene 2006 19:49Asunto: ¿es más rápida la gravedad o la luz?
Si una estrella con un planeta desapareciese de repente ¿que sucederÃa?,que el planeta se saldrÃa inmediatamente de su órbita o que tardarÃa en salirse de orbita el tiempo que la luz tardase en recorrer la distancia que separa la estrella del planeta.
Quiza no halla respuesta por la misma razón que la estrella no podria desaparecer sin dejar rastro.
¿Cual es vuestra opinión?
Publicado: 01 Ene 2006 20:43Asunto: Re: ¿es más rápida la gravedad o la luz?
socel escribió:
Si una estrella con un planeta desapareciese de repente ¿que sucederÃa?,que el planeta se saldrÃa inmediatamente de su órbita o que tardarÃa en salirse de orbita el tiempo que la luz tardase en recorrer la distancia que separa la estrella del planeta.
Quiza no halla respuesta por la misma razón que la estrella no podria desaparecer sin dejar rastro.
¿Cual es vuestra opinión?
saludos
************
dice illu :
Esa idea de que la orbitacion depende por si sola de la interaccion
gravitatoria no esta demostrada, mas bien lo que si esta demostrado
es que los modelos basados en gravitacion no son estables, ni siquiera
virtualmente. La llamada paradoja de Bentley jamas ha podido ser
solucionada ni por la gravitacion de Newton, ni por la de Einstein
y mucho menos ahora que se tiene en cuenta una supuesta energia
oscura que puede operar simetricamente y no necesariamente y
solamente en la direccion de la espansion.
Esta paradoja solo puede ser solucionada introduciendo un mecanismo
que sea simultaneamente la causa del movimiento y de la gravedad
de la rotacion, de la rotacion diferencial, de la espansion y de la
espancion acelerada.
Aqui hay dos muy buenos escritos que explican que la velocidad de la luz
y de la gravedad son muy diferentes.
Abstract: Standard experimental techniques exist to determine the propagation speed of forces. When we apply these techniques to gravity, they all yield propagation speeds too great to measure, substantially faster than lightspeed. This is because gravity, in contrast to light, has no detectable aberration or propagation delay for its action, even for cases (such as binary pulsars) where sources of gravity accelerate significantly during the light time from source to target By contrast, the finite propagation speed of light causes radiation pressure forces to have a non-radial component causing orbits to decay (the "Poynting-Robertson effect"); but gravity has no counterpart force proportional to v/c to first order. General relativity (GR) explains these features by suggesting that gravitation (unlike electromagnetic forces) is a pure geometric effect of curved space-time, not a force of nature that propagates. Gravitational radiation, which surely does propagate at lightspeed but is a fifth order effect in v/c, is too small to play a role in explaining this difference in behavior between gravity and ordinary forces of nature. Problems with the causality principle also exist for GR in this connection, such as explaining how the external fields between binary black holes manage to continually update without benefit of communication with the masses hidden behind event horizons. These causality problems would be solved without any change to the mathematical formalism of GR, but only to its interpretation, if gravity is once again taken to be a propagating force of nature in flat spacetime with the propagation speed indicated by observational evidence and experiments: not less than 2 x 1010 c. Such a change of perspective requires no change in the assumed character of gravitational radiation or its lightspeed propagation. Although faster-than-light force propagation speeds do violate Einstein special relativity (SR), they are in accord with Lorentzian relativity, which has never been experimentally distinguished from SR -- at least, not in favor of SR. Indeed, far from upsetting much of current physics, the main changes induced by this new perspective are beneficial to areas where physics has been struggling, such as explaining experimental evidence for non-locality in quantum physics, the dark matter issue in cosmology, and the possible unification of forces. Recognition of a faster-than-lightspeed propagation of gravity, as indicated by all existing experimental evidence, may be the key to taking conventional physics to the next plateau.
[Above artwork copyrighted 1997 by Boris Starosta.]
Abstract. The mathematical equations of general relativity are unique, but their physical interpretation is not. Confusion reigns over the difference between the field and geometric interpretations of GR, the meaning of gravitational force in a GR context, the distinction between gravitational waves and force variations, and the applicability of aberration to gravity. The geometric interpretation of GR, argued by Carlip, blurs these concepts. We show that aberration has been suppressed in the GR equations of motion through setting gravity’s propagation speed to infinity; and that the absence of aberration cannot be explained through some mathematical “cancellation†because that would cancel tidal forces too. The mere existence of Lorentzian relativity as an experimentally viable model for the relativity of motion nullifies the “proof†that nothing can propagate faster than light in forward time. Experiments indicate that gravity and electrodynamic forces both propagate far in excess of lightspeed.
Short abstract. General relativity has a geometric and a field interpretation. If angular momentum conservation is invoked in the geometric interpretation to explain experiments, the causality principle is violated. Meanwhile, the field interpretation avoids this problem by allowing faster-than-light propagation in forward time. Lightspeed is not a universal speed limit.
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